is skilled, largest hit by having part of the guerrilla army, the formation, the armed wing of the anc and the chief of intelligence. slate got this succession of people from different parts of the liberation movement taking over who had been out of the country for longer to time, or had been imprisoned for laundries of time. and to a certain extent that shape some of the mistakes that have been made in the last yea years. >> does thabo mbeki talk but what surprised we came back after all those years and except? >> want to thank you quickly learn when you interview people or politicians and political power is nothing ever surprise them. so the main thing that upset him every time i was into being and is, i would ask that question what would surprise you to what was unusual, what jumped out at you? every, i would say that he would lean back, take a look at me with a lizardlike look when you know you have irritated him. and that would come. know, my brother, never surprised. never admit you were surprised. i think the things that surprised thabo mbeki certainly who was the second preside